FAQ

MY QUESTIONS FOR YOU > Jump to answers >

What are you willing to do to make this work?
Are you ready to make the commitment to learn how to…

SERVICES > Jump to answers >

Do you only work with married couples? Or do you work with individuals and issues other than marriage, too?
What types of coaching packages do you offer?
Speaking: See my Speaking FAQ at "For Event Organizers"
Remote Sessions: I live across the country from you, yet I see that you work with clients all over the world. How do you work with people remotely?
Remote Sessions: Can we do our sessions over the phone or by video?
Remote Sessions: Do you notice a lower success rate, when working with someone online vs. in-person?
How many clients do you work with at a time?
Aren't I just paying you to care?
Do you ever work with companies and organizations? It seems like these relationships skills would work really well in the workplace, too.

EFFECTIVENESS > Jump to answers >

How is just venting and complaining about problems going to change anything?
What research and evidence is your work based on? What models or approaches do you use?
What can you help me with?
What are the unique benefits of working with a coach whose background and training is in the field of therapy?
Does it really work?
How exactly does this work? It sounds good, but how will we actually make this happen
Bottom line: So what's in it for me if I become your client?
Are there any good therapists who are also inexpensive?

FEES > Jump to answers >

What is your fee?
Do you offer a free initial consult?
How long will this take? I want to figure out how much this will cost.
That seems expensive. I've been to counseling before where it wasn't that much. Why is that?
What forms of payment do you accept?
Do you take insurance? Are there other payment options?
Why do you recommend 12 sessions?
My clergy member is willing to help financially pay for the cost of counseling. However, I can't find someone in my area who both has the speciality areas I need as well as someone who will uphold my spiritual values. How do I approach my clergy about working with you remotely?
My insurance will reimburse for visits that are individual only. Would you be willing to change the ones on the invlice that say "family" or "couple" to "individual"?

CLERGY FAQ > Jump to answers >

SPEAKER FAQ > Jump to answers >

MORE ABOUT JONATHAN > Jump to answers >

My Questions for YOU

What are you willing to do to make this work?

I often ask my clients, “What are you willing to do to make this work?” Frequently, and fortunately, the response is, “I’ll do whatever it takes.”

This is a great answer I love to hear from my clients. It predicts the directions we can take pretty quickly as it is a statement that we can test immediately. Fortunately, most of my clients mean it when they say it and as a result most of them get incredible results. However, there are some who say it because it sounds good and/or they want to believe that about themselves. However, some people just say they will do “whatever it takes” to look good and as soon as the rubber meets the road they start complaining about:

cost/investment,
schedule and time,
homework,
practicing,
the process vs. immediate results,
their partner more than their own personal accountability,
arguing with solutions provided rather than fully considering them before rejecting them.

This latter type of person, if not willing to be corrected, will quickly drop out of the work. As such, this type of doing “whatever” it takes translates into, “I’ll do whatever I’m comfortable doing but certainly not whatever it takes.”

I keep it simple and literal. Whatever means whatever it takes—time, money, energy, commitment, practice (practice, practice, practice) and perseverance.

So when I hear, “I’ll do whatever it takes to save my marriage,” I’ll reply, “Great because it will take a lot and we’ll be able to test the veracity of your word. I will hold you to that statement, which is your word, okay?”

Are you ready to make the commitment to learn how to…

Study the best practices;
Learn from experienced marriage and parenting mentors;
Learn the best skills;
Develop your skills;
Practicing those skills. Over and over and over and over…and over. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat;
Create maintenance routines;
Use strategies to enhance your relationships on a regular basis;
Brand, market, and sell yourself daily to your key relationships;
Bottom line: Put your money where your mouth is?

If so, then contact Jonathan at 801.787.8014 or jonathan@RelateGREAT.net to start creating your GREAT Relationship.

Services

Do you only work with married couples? Or do you work with individuals and issues other than marriage, too?

While people know me most for my marriage transformation work as my flagship offering, it is not the whole armada. So, no, I don’t only work with married couples, though I specialize in that area. My background (see my vita) and training are in all aspects of individual, couple, and family work with children, teens, and adults. I work with single, separated, divorced, and remarrying clients. I work with people on developing self-mastery, mental health issues (depression, anxiety, etc), and addiction issues.

The focus of my marketing (and this website) is RelateGREAT because I specialize in transforming marriages into the ones everyone wants. To be able to help so many marriages from such a wide and varied background of personalities, circumstances, and situations, as you can imagine, I would need to have a broad background of expertise to be able to deal with anything that comes up in marriage situations from the mild (communication, intimacy, step-family transitions, and parenting issues) to the most severe (domestic violence, suicidality, affairs, child abuse, addiction, mental illness, etc.). So many things impact the quality of marriage—especially our individual work with our own selves—that the person you are working with (me) must be well-versed in all key aspects of psychology and relationship dynamics.

There is often a misunderstanding about what I treat and don’t. As a licensed marriage and family therapist (LMFT) I am a licensed mental health provider (LMHP) in the State of Utah and have specialized training and experience in treating anxiety and depression for many years. So much so that I frequently train clinicians in anxiety management in workshops and national conferences.

Relationship work and individual self-mastery work are not separate from each other but naturally play off one another in the same arena. Relationships trigger anxiety more than anything else, and anxiety complicates relationships. They are intertwined, so I must have expertise in both. This is important to clarify as some see the two areas as separate from one another: i.e., a therapist who treats relationships does not treat mental health issues. It is a common misunderstanding.

Whether you choose to work with me or not, it may be helpful to know what to look for as you carefully shop around for a counselor expert in depression and anxiety treatment: They should have a strong background in cognitive-behavioral therapy (CBT) and/or dialectical behavioral therapy (DBT) and should be skilled in helping you in the following four skill areas crucial to effective depression and anxiety management:

Core mindfulness skills;
Emotion regulation skills;
Distress tolerance skills;
Interpersonal effectiveness skills.

Fortunately, each of these has a full series of mindsets and strategies. The great news is there is so much you can learn not only to heal but also to develop mastery over your strong emotions.

What types of coaching do you offer?

I do Strategic Relationship Coaching. Use your coaching time to focus on Self-Mastery, Couples Work, Parent Training, or Workplace Development, or combine them as needed, as they inherently dovetail with each other: It’s all relationships.

Personal Living Packages address:

Marriage Mastery,
Parent Training and
Self-Mastery

Corporate Living Packages address:

Team Building,
Leadership Development,
Organizational Transformation and
Work/Family Balance
Depending on your company's size and the scope of the project, I can accommodate your organization's training and development needs through my strategic partnerships with Five Degrees Consulting, Chocolate Villa Women’s Leadership Programs, and The Green River Group.

Monthly Structure

Priority access to coach in person as well as via email, tele-coaching sessions
Four in-depth one-hour sessions
Quick, laser-meetings
Completion of reading assignments
Completion of workbook assignments
Completion of specific application assignments
Daily utilization of Focus Sheets
I will work you. I will challenge you. This work will not be easy. It will be worth it.

Remote Sessions: I live across the country from you, yet I see that you work with clients all over the world. How do you work with people remotely?

I don’t do therapy remotely but do provide coaching services. While similar there are a few critical differences. To do therapy in a state you must be located in that state. Coaching is a non-regulated field and so I am able to do life- and relationship-coaching anywhere by any means.

Coaching is well-suited for high-functioning clients where we are not dealing with serious mental health, addiction, or abuse or violence. Those issues would require working more closely with a therapist for several reasons. Coaching however assumes a certain level of stability and health already present. This does not mean that coaching clients won’t have issues and concerns but that they are able to function relatively well (i.e., hold down a job, able to think rationally, are open to and motivated for change, etc).

Remote Sessions: Can we do our sessions over the phone or by video?

Certainly, we can do video or phone, whichever you prefer.

Remote Sessions: Do you notice a lower success rate when working with someone online vs. in-person?

No, I don’t notice a lower success rate with online vs. in-person. There are pros and cons, of course. The con is that face-to-face is certainly preferred and most natural/comfortable for most. The main pro is accessibility in that you are not limited to working with those in your area who may or may not meet your needs, and you can work with the professional you were referred to by someone whose recommendation you trust. The main variables for success are:

It’s essential to ensure you have the right therapist in terms of experience, skill set, and training, and most importantly, that it’s the right “fit” personality-wise.
And, of course, you must ensure you’re committed to doing the work and not just looking for easy answers or quick fixes.

How many clients do you work with at a time?

I take on an exclusive and limited clientele. They select me and I also select them. This allows me to be accessible to my clients to respond to their needs instead of of being pulled and distracted in too many directions. I also despise ridiculously long waiting lists—it's best to "strike while the iron's hot." If you are a new client, I will do all I can to get you in within a week or two.

Also, one client spot out of every 10 is reserved strictly for pro-bono work. Instead of paying me, these clients commit to “paying it forward” in some meaningful way that they are able to.

Aren’t I just paying you to care?

Short answer: No. You can’t pay me to care. I care because I care. What you are paying for is: 1. My expertise, 2. My time, and 3. My availability. The caring is free. The caring is who I am.

Long answer: Once several years ago I heard the term “emotional prostitution” levied against my field. That's pretty funny! However, it is both ignorant and uninformed. The majority of my colleagues and I got into this profession because we are compassionate and sincere by nature. You can’t buy that.

You are paying for:

My expertise (which includes years of experience, past training as well as continuing education, and background).
Our session time together. By paying for my time, obviously then I can be present with you instead of needing to work some other form of job to provide for my family. If I was working elsewhere that would leave me unavailable to help at all. I would still care but what good would it do if I couldn’t be present to care? Nor would I be in a position to get to know you in this capacity. Thus while I could care in general how would I be able to care for you specifically?
My availability. Since I maintain a smaller client base than most therapists I am much more available to you for between-session-support (which includes after hours phone, email and text support) to problem-solve, put out fires, and keep your progress and momentum moving in a good direction.

So in short, you’re paying me to be there. The caring comes free.

Do you ever work with organizations and companies? It seems like these relationship skills would work really well in the workplace, too.

Yes, I do. I am a Relationship Strategist. On the micro-level I work with individuals, couples and families focusing on Self-Mastery, Couples Work and Parent Training. On the macro-level I work with companies and organizations. The home and workplace inherently dovetail: It’s all relationships. These are transferrable skills: The skills learned in one can be transferred and adapted into the other. The work I do with organizations and companies includes:

Team Building,
Leadership Development,
Workplace Development
Organizational Transformation,
Work/Family Balance,
Stress Management
Customer Service: Handling Angry Customers with Grace

I can accommodate the training and development needs of your organization depending on the size of your company and the scope of the project through my strategic partnerships with Five Degrees Consulting, Chocolate Villa Women’s Leadership Programs and The Green River Group.

Effectiveness

“How is just venting and complaining about problems going to change anything?”

It won’t, and that’s what we won’t be doing here. While you can express your feelings and concerns as much as you want and need (and it is in my nature to care deeply and sincerely about how people feel), the bottom line is that we will be doing lots of education and skill-building and then taking action: practicing a lot and holding you accountable to your goals.

What research and evidence is your work based on? What models or approaches do you use?

All of my work is based on solid evidence- and research-based practices. Why? Simply because your time and my time are too valuable for dinking around with personal theories, opinions, “quick fixes,” and just general quackery that can sound good but aren’t actually and widely effective for most people. Sure, EVERY approach can have anecdotal evidence supporting whatever claim. For example, consider any weight loss product with spokespersons and models who’ve lost weight with their product, all with this standard fine print, “Results not typical.”

So what is the foundation I have built The GREAT Relationship™ work upon?

Best practice therapeutic clinical models: These are all based on answering the question, “How do people really change?”:

Solution-Focused Brief Therapy (SFBT)
The Gottman Model
Internal Family Systems (IFS)
Systems Theory (Minuchin & Bowen)
Strategic Family Therapy (Haley)
Milan Systemic Therapy
Narrative Therapy
Attachment Theory
Emotionally Focused Therapy (EFT)
Motivational Interviewing (MI)
Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT)
Dialectical Behavioral Therapy (DBT)
Pragmatic/ Experiential Therapy for Couples (PET-C)
Relationship Enhancement Therapy (RET)

Research:

Staying current on the ongoing research in the specific marriage and family therapy, psychology, and human development fields.
John M. Gottman’s groundbreaking, field-altering research.
Michelle Weiner-Davis’ Divorce Busting research and movement.
The marriage mentoring model.
Neurobiology—the study of how our brains affect our bodies, our emotions and our relationships.

Education:

Formal training in Family Sciences (undergraduate) and Marriage and Family Therapy (graduate). See my vita for complete information.
Continuing education. My licensure (and my dedication to this great field) requires me to continue my education every year through conferences, workshops, professional journals, and reading.
Teaching. I teach and speak extensively to lay and professional audiences via keynote addresses and workshops at professional regional and national conferences, community workshops, seminars and classes, and guest lecture at area universities.

Experience:

See my vita and speakers intro page for my complete background.

Spirituality:

Way before the psychologists and sociologists started formally and systematically seeking answers about the human condition prophets and disciples, masters and students have been asking the deep and profound questions and great answers have been revealed to them about creating truly successful and meaningful family relationships, managing stress, and finding meaning and purpose in life. Among others, I have been most heavily influenced by Christianity, Buddhism, Zen, Taoism, and Judaism. I actively practice my own faith.

What can you help me with?

I will help you create great, truly phenomenal, relationships with yourself, with your spouse, with your children. Period. The real question is what do you want to create? I will work diligently with you to help you achieve your personal and relationship goals.

For full details on what I can help you with: Look at the Services and Seminars I offer. Read more About my background and expertise. Or simply feel free to contact me directly at 801.787.8014 or jonathan@RelateGREAT.net and I’ll be happy to answer any of your questions.

What are the unique benefits of working with a coach whose background and training is in the field of therapy?

“Coaches with a clinical background bring extraordinary gifts to their work not the least of which is their familiarity with a century of social science research that is exquisitely relevant to individual and group coaching relationships.”
—Ben Dean, Ph.D.,
CEO and Founder, MentorCoach, LLC,
MentorCoach.com

My therapeutic training and background as a marriage and family therapist is based in systemic, narrative, collaborative and the post-modern approaches which are non-pathology based, but are respectful, collaborative and empowering.

There are some myths out there commonly purporting that therapy focuses only on problems and the past while coaching focuses on solutions and moving forward. This is patently false, ignorant and uninformed. My specific training was in solution-focused and solution-oriented approaches, positive psychology, resiliency research, non-pathology based family therapy approaches and strong family research and practices. The vast majority of my therapy colleagues also practice from a strengths-based approach. I have no problem with good coaching. I’ve always found it interesting that to distinguish themselves, some coaches find it necessary to tear down another field to make themselves look better. And further to do the tearing down in a way that isn’t even accurate and is often misleading. Is that really the type of person you are looking to help you make changes in your life?

The truth is that coaching grew out of the therapy field and has been strongly influenced by the great leaders in the therapeutic field. The ironic thing, though, is that many coaches don’t actually know the roots of the work that they do nor how the practices they use were first discovered and developed and pioneered by therapists. At some point I’ll write up a longer essay detailing these roots/origins and how the change field has grown and developed and influences one another.

Just as in any field there are those who are brilliant and highly qualified and there are quacks. Whether you use a therapist, a coach or a therapist/coach make sure you “shop around” and study their backgrounds.

Does it really work?

I often say, "The Work works when you work the Work the way that the Work works."

It works so well in fact that if after three to four months (the 12 session recommended minimum commitment) of doing this targeted, focused work (including the required homework, reading, skills practice to an 80% minimum level) that if we have not made measurable progress towards your goals I will fire myself. I have not had to do this yet.

This does not necessarily mean the full achievement of your goals. 12 sessions is the minimum—some work naturally takes longer depending on the people and the situations. However, significant and measurable progress is fair to be expected at this point.

Those who commit to this work simply (though not easily) win. Those who don’t do the work don’t get the results. Those who do, do.

How exactly does this work? It sounds good, but how will we actually make this happen?

Making it actually happen is the fun part! I use very specific tactical relationship strategies targeting what’s needed from self-mastery, transformative couples work, and effective parenting training. These strategies are based on timeless universal principles and proven, research- and evidence-based practices and techniques. I take a “zero-fluff” approach based on solid guiding principles and proven and practical techniques that have been field-tested in the trenches.

I will settle for nothing less than excellence and will hold you to a high standard of work. There’s good news and bad news with that promise. The good news is that my clients and I get results. We get outcomes. The bad news is actually part of the good news: I will work you. I will challenge you. I will help you work past whatever blocks and ineffective habits you have or are faced with. This sounds good, but admittedly it can also be quite hard. But the outcomes sure are encouraging, energizing and rejuvenating.

I have the skill, expertise, background, knowledge, experience and network to develop the necessary strategies to create solutions to nearly any goal and obstacles that arise in the pursuit of those goals. If for some reason, though, I can’t help you with your concerns I can get you connected with someone who can.

I have extensive experience in developing effective solutions to the most difficult life and behavioral health problems. I have experience in corporate solutions, executive coaching, leadership development. Browse the site for more details on what we can address together and to get a feel for my approach. You may also just contact me directly at 801.787.8014 or jonathan@RelateGREAT.net.

Bottom line: “So, what’s in it for me?”

Do this work and you will grow and your relationship will transform. Period.

Get started creating the relationship you want today! Contact: 801.787.8014 or jonathan@RelateGREAT.net

Fees

What is your fee?

My fee is $200 per hour. Sessions that run over one-hour are pro-rated by the quarter-hour. Sessions are typically one full hour, though the first session is often 1 1/2 to 2 hours, and other sessions may be longer or shorter than an hour depending on need.

In-between phone, text, or email support are included at no extra charge unless the time required exceeds 30-minutes at which time it is billed in 15-minute pro-rated increments.

Pre-paid hourly package discounts are available as follows:

Relationship Consulting Hourly Rates*
$200.00/hour
- The first session is 90 minutes ($300.00).
- Sessions are typically one-hour (I provide a full 60-minute hour vs. the typical 45-50 minute therapy "hour"). However, some sessions may be longer based on need. Additional session time is billed on the quarter-hour at the hourly rate. Sessions are billed per hour and not per session. So a 60-minute session would be $200, and a 90-minute session would be $300 at the full fee.
- Limited pro-bono scholarships to highly motivated low-income clients.
- Clergy pay is accepted (with a special rate given to clergy).
5-Hour Package Discount*
$925 (Regularly $1,000. 7.5% discount. Save $75. Prepaid hourly rate is $185/hr vs $200/hr).
- *Use the hours when you need them.
- **Package discounts do not apply to the first assessment session, which is full price.
- ***NOTE: Fees for pre-paid hours are non-refundable but do not expire and can be transferred to anyone you like if you choose not to use them or no longer need them.
10-Hour Package Discount* $1,800
$1,800 (Regularly $2,000. 10% discount. Save $200, which is one hour free. Prepaid hourly rate is $180/hr vs $200/hr).
- *Use the hours when you need them.
- **Package discounts do not apply to the first assessment session, which is full price.
- ***NOTE: Fees for pre-paid hours are non-refundable but do not expire and can be transferred to anyone you like if you choose not to use them or no longer need them.
Note: These amounts assume hourly sessions. If you need more time for longer sessions which is sometimes the case, you will be billed accordingly at the hourly rate, and I will honor the hourly discount amount associated with your package. Let me know if you have any questions. Thank you.

Payment forms accepted
Cash, card (debit, credit, HSA, flex/cafeteria plan), or Venmo (you can make payments online here), and third-party payments from clergy (e.g., bishop, pastor, etc.) or family. Third-party reimbursement (insurance) sometimes as follows:

Insurance
I don’t take insurance. However, if you are in the same state as I am (UT) you can see if your insurance will reimburse you directly for out-of-network providers. If so, you pay out of pocket at the time of service, and you then seek reimbursement from your insurance company by submitting a billing statement for services rendered, called a superbill to them.

How long will this take? I want to figure out how much this will cost.

As for timelines, while it’s a very fair question, as you can imagine, the answer varies wildly on so many variables–one’s readiness for change, how motivated and committed someone is to the work, the nature of the issues, their personality, their pace of change, etc… and at this point, there’s no way for me to gauge any of that without knowing you nor all the particulars yet. However, I do recommend people make a minimum 12-session commitment as the last thing we want to do is just start to get into things and then stop halfway in and then say, “Oh, I tried counseling, but it didn’t work,” which is like saying, “I went to the gym five times and didn’t lose 50 lbs. The gym didn’t work.” :-) I always say there’s no halfway jumping across a chasm. Twelve sessions isn’t a magic number, but it does give us 3-4 months of consistent work meetings every week or every other week that we can then track progress from our baseline where we started to where we are at the 6th session and 12th session points. Some clients take less time, some more, and some much more. My work with my clients is outcome- and results-oriented, so it’s important that we do the right work the right way and long enough for it to take root so that it can then come to fruition.

That seems expensive. I’ve been to counseling before, where it was much cheaper. Why is that?

Short answer: You get what you pay for. Really.

Longer answer: At first glance, yes, it can seem expensive. However, there are usually much greater costs that are paid when we “cheap out” on our well-being. This is true with almost any product or service. Let me explain as follows:

Beware the high cost of low price.

What do I mean? You may think you’re paying more out of pocket for my services—that is, until you count the real cost.

You can definitely find cheaper services either through your insurance (if they’ll cover what you need and if they’ll let you work on what you want to work on in session) or through someone who takes a lower fee. Obviously, if what you’re doing is working, then no problem. However, if you are not getting tangible results, my question is, is “cheaper” really saving you money?

Consider the cost of NO, or poor, results:

If you stay in counseling or coaching, but you are getting minimal or no results, then your “cheaper” fees add up over time to being more than what you’d be paying for a results-driven process—with little to show for it;
What if it didn’t work with the first counselor? Understandably, you shop around and move on to the next… That is, unless you were so discouraged by the attempt that didn’t work that you stopped going to counseling and received no benefit at all. In both scenarios, you’re still out of the money you spent, again with little to show for your efforts;
Let’s say you find a counselor who will accept $75/hr, and you pay out of pocket. Let’s say you work with him or her for 12 sessions (3 months) = $900. Much less than $200/hr for 12 sessions with me, which equals $2,400. Now if it worked, then that’s great. I’ll never argue against results. But what if it didn’t? You’re out of the money and still stuck with the problems that brought you into counseling. Let’s say you go twice that many for 24 sessions (6 months). That’s $1,800. Maybe it’s working better now that you’ve stuck with it longer, which is great. Maybe it didn’t, which now seems a shame that all that money and time was spent with little actually to show for it, and the problems STILL exist, but now with less energy, interest, and motivation to continue working on it;
Also, consider the cost of what most people do when they drop out of counseling because they aren’t getting results. What direct and indirect costs are there to their couple and family relationships when the problem remains? What is the monetary value of the toll the unresolved problem has on the children and yourself mentally, emotionally, physically, and spiritually?
There’s a reason you can find it cheaper elsewhere: Many counselors and coaches work from a scarcity model: “I have to see so many clients a week at X fee to make enough money to be able to….” Reasonable enough thought process, right? Sure. However, what’s the impact on client care in a profession that can be very mentally and emotionally taxing when the provider is “churning” client appointments? Most counselors in those cheaper-paying positions have high caseloads with lots of paperwork requirements for each of those clients. How much time do they have to devote to you between sessions when you have a need? How much time do they have to do research on topics directly related to your concerns? How much time do they have for balance and self-care in their own lives? This is not to disparage the field. Don’t get me wrong. I know from experience as I used to work in those settings, and many of my colleagues still do. Those of us who have been there know how taxing that type of workload can be. It tends to burn therapists out if they aren’t careful. These are very real concerns that therapists express to me at professional conferences, around staff meetings, etc.
My average client sees considerable and measurable results toward their goals by session 12 (which is our agreed-upon minimum number of sessions). At my full fee of $200/hr x 12 = $2,400. Admittedly, that’s a good chunk of change. Compare that cost to these common expenses:
- As an individual or a couple, how much do we willingly and gladly spend on car, spa, recreation, and vacations while our core relationship problems remain unresolved?
- If and when it comes time to hire the divorce attorney, will you be able to dicker for price, or will you simply find a way to pay for it? Most people find a way to pay it. It’s amazing to me how many people will try to find the cheapest counseling they can find to save their marriage but will pay whatever it takes to get the best “shark” for their divorce. They end up paying a premium price for cruddy results. And yet I’ve had people, prior to becoming my clients, at times complain about paying much less about creating great results.
- Read these related articles: Count the Cost, and Count the REAL Cost, Part 2.

So the question is: How much are you really paying, considering you are paying for more “cheaper” sessions with less results?

Are there any good therapists who are also inexpensive?

Yes and no. Yes, there will always be cheaper fees somewhere. And yes, sometimes there are also good therapists tied with those cheaper fees. There are two points to consider in regard to your question:

There is some truth to “you get what you pay for.” Over the years, quite a few clients, bishops, and other clergy have told me they have actually paid more in the long run for “less expensive” therapists simply because:
1. It took longer and/or;
2. The results weren’t helpful, which resulted in them ending up paying more in the long run for more counseling and/or a different counselor and/or more ongoing assistance in other ways to the member because of the direct and indirect financial impact of unresolved issues. These are all the hidden costs of “cheaper”;
Sometimes you can find good counselors “on the cheap”: For example, I worked at a community mental health agency for ten years where our clients paid according to what they could afford: some paid the full fee, and some paid only $2 a session. I was paid a salary there, of course, and our agency was funded by county, state, and federal contracts and funding, which offset the fees so all incomes could access quality care. I provided the same high-quality counseling then that I do now. The downside was that I had a large caseload, which could compromise the amount of personal attention I was able to provide to my clients. But, yes, you can find good therapists that are less expensive, too. The main thing is to shop around vs. just “taking what you can get.”

The bottom line is there are many good therapists out there and many sub-par ones, as is true in any profession. It’s a matter of finding who’s available that you can afford (on your own, through your insurance, with church or family help, or agency funding) and then shopping around among them to see who is the best for you. Never settle for just what someone gives you or just what you “can get.” In my field, it’s called self-advocacy, and we believe that clients can and should advocate strongly for the best care available.

What forms of payment do you accept?

I accept credit or debit cards, cash, and Venmo, and on very rare occasions, I can even accept barter so long as it does not create a conflict of interest (we can discuss that further if you wish).

Do you take insurance? Are there other payment options?

Normally payments are made at the time of service and/or are pre-paid as part of a package. However, there are other options as well.

Insurance: I do not bill insurance. However, if 1. You are a client in the State of Utah; 2. We are working on a diagnosable issue in a therapy relationship; and 3. If your insurance reimburses you for an “out of network provider,” then I can provide you with a receipt for fees you have paid me for services rendered on your behalf that contains the diagnostic codes, session codes, and my professional information required by insurance companies. Every insurance company works differently. They may or may not authorize services, and they may or may not reimburse you.
Pay over time: Payment is expected at the beginning of each month. You may make partial payments on a monthly basis via credit or debit card payments that you have contracted to pay based on what you can manage each month realistically. I don’t charge interest or fees for payment plans so long as payments are being made.
Clergy: I also work with clergy from various faiths as they know I will honor your spiritual values. Many clergy help pay the fee in full or in part based on their member’s needs. Since these funds come from sacred donations, I offer a substantially reduced fee to clergy. Contact me for more details on how this works.
Family: Some clients receive help from their family,s who pay for their sessions by debit/credit or online via PayPal.

Q: Why don’t you take insurance? What is your policy on insurance reimbursement?

Unlike many providers, I do not accept insurance, nor do I process insurance claims. There are three key reasons for this that I think are very important:

Confidentiality. Insurance companies require that you be diagnosed with a mental health disorder if you are to be reimbursed. This diagnosis goes into your permanent health record and may affect your ability to be insured in the future. Many people do not appreciate this especially when they change jobs and apply for new insurance and are then denied or limited in their coverage.
Client Care. I have found that the extraordinary amount of paperwork required for processing claims takes away significantly from time that can be invested in personal client care (i.e., personal responsiveness to client’s needs, additional individual research for each client, ongoing research and education, coordinating with providers, family members, and other supports, etc.). Collecting from insurance involves processing, billing, collecting, and negotiating treatment with insurance companies and so on. Less time on processing insurance claims equals more time to client care by developing client-specific interventions, continuing to improve on our knowledge and skills, conducting research, etc. which translates into a higher quality product for my clients.
Course of Treatment. An insurance company’s primary goal is to spend the minimum it can to maximize its profits. That is what they are in business for, which is fine. However, this translates into a third party who does not know your needs and circumstances dictating who you can see, what can or can’t be addressed, what types of sessions you may or may not have, and how many times you can see them, if at all. I firmly believe that deciding who you see should be your choice and that the course of treatment should be negotiated by those directly involved in it —the client(s) and the consultant.

I realize that mine is a strong stance. If accessing your insurance benefits, either out of necessity or preference, is important to you, I will be happy to refer you to other qualified colleagues of mine who process insurance claims.

Q: Isn’t there any way I can work with you and still use my insurance?

Some of my clients have found that they have been able to submit their own claims for our work together. Depending on your insurance benefits, some companies will reimburse you, in full or in part, for services rendered. You may contact your provider directly and ask if this is an option. If so, I will be happy to provide you with an invoice with the necessary insurance billing codes and information they require.

Q: Have you had to refuse service to many people because of your insurance policy?

Actually, there have only been a few times when we couldn’t develop a workable payment solution, and I had to refer them elsewhere. The good news is that due to the focused and strategic nature of our work together, most find they have made considerable progress in a very limited amount of sessions (everyone’s different, but the average is 8-12 sessions for marked improvement). Thus those who pay the full fee find that it’s usually still a cost-effective strategy compared with less-expensive therapy that may also be less effective. Further, many have found additional help through other third parties (see below).

Q: Do you take reimbursement from other third parties?

Yes. I work with many clergy from various faiths who financially support their members in full or in part. You are welcome to check with your clergy person to discuss this option, and he or she is welcome to contact me directly if he or she has any questions. Further, family members have also been willing to support or defray the cost of services in full or in part.

Why do you recommend 12 sessions??

I have found that while we can accomplish a lot in just 10-12 sessions, that not everyone who starts finishes. Thus, this three- to four-month commitment establishes clear parameters on what is expected. At this stage in my career, I am only working with those who are willing to do whatever it takes to get the job done. We don’t get lasting results in brief periods. We don’t get great results by doing sloppy work. We don’t get BMWs out of Yugo factories. A few weeks in the gym with your personal trainer isn’t going to create huge muscles or great weight loss, regardless of how bad you want it or how good your trainer is. Commit to the work and to the process, and you commit to results.

I chose the 12 session mark both from:

The research shows that most clients on average, attend 8-12 sessions regardless of positive, neutral, or negative experiences/outcomes. That’s simply the time frame therapists generally have to do their work with most clients; and
My own professional experience of observing the following pattern with most clients over the years:

Sessions 1-2: The Honeymoon Phase, where people get over the fear of going to counseling and then, to their glad surprise, hear new ideas and strategies that provide encouragement and hope. This energizes clients to try and gives them a running start;
Sessions 3-4: Reality Sets In Phase where clients come back to the reality that they are still human, have pulses, and that all their long-standing habits are still there in full force. They get discouraged. Most people, if they haven’t given a commitment to a process of counseling, give in at this point and stop going because “it isn’t working.”
Sessions 5-9: The Work Phase where clients dig in and work past “the wall,” barriers, and discouragement, start to get a bit more comfortable with the new skills and mindsets, and get the tender roots of new habits to begin to form;
Sessions 10-12: Tapering Phase, where we’ve hit a stride and are now attending every other week as they are a little more confident in their skill sets and are able to practice more and more on their own with increasing success.

Of course, 12 sessions are the minimum recommendation. Some take twice as long. Some even longer. Some less. Every person and every situation is different. However, the above four phases are common and predictable for most people, and you can expect something similar in your experience. Don’t get fixated on the number 12. It’s just a marker where we can gauge progress. It doesn’t have to mean everything needs to be “fixed” by then. Take the time you and your situation require.

My clergy member is willing to help support me financially by helping me pay for counseling. However, I can’t find someone in my area who both has the speciality areas I need and as well as someone who will uphold my spiritual values. How do I approach my clergy member about working with you remotely?

You can respectfully address the following with your clergy member:

First, just discuss what you’ve shared with me before about not having access close by to a qualified therapist that meets your needs, and how long it would/could take to travel to another city to meet with a qualified professional;
Inform your clergy member That I work with many clergy locally and remotely for that very reason;
With video and phone technology being so much better and low cost now, it is changing how people access healthcare in many ways. For example, in addition to what I provide in this field of counseling, some doctors (both general practitioners and psychiatrists) are now “meeting” with rural patients via video conferencing over the web with people who would otherwise not have access to a doctor. Thus it is becoming more common as technology is allowing people greater choices in selecting providers for their care. Both the Bishops (and other clergy I work with) and my clients appreciate it; in my case, for the same cost, they can get better and more well-suited care.
I am one of the few in my field on this cutting-edge who is providing this option. I have clients all over the country and even a few international clients I work with this way (see Client Map).
He or she is more than welcome to call me directly at 801.787.8014 or email me at jonathan@RelateGREAT.net, and I will be happy to answer any of their questions or concerns about working in this manner.

My insurance will reimburse for visits that are individual only. Would you be willing to change the ones on the invoice that say "family" to "individual"?

Professionally I am bound to report the sessions as they are by my licensing board’s ethical code as well as legally (to do otherwise would amount to “insurance fraud” and loss of licensure).

Insurance’s “reasoning” is one of the reasons I don’t deal with them—too many insurance companies ignore the overwhelming body of research that shows that individuals with behavioral health issues (mental health, addictions, etc.) get well both sooner and better by combining individual and couples/family sessions—which actually saves the insurance company more in the long run as they end up paying for fewer sessions overall with better results. No duh, of course, but they continually ignore that. Typical myopic thinking. Grrrr. I’m sorry though for the additional financial burden that puts on you.

Clergy FAQ

Are there benefits to using a counselor of my same faith, or who is a person of faith?

Yes, it can make a difference and it does have some unique benefits, however, it isn’t necessary.

First of all, the benefits:

Personally, because I greatly value my faith and relationship with God, I have great respect for anyone else’s faith and relationship with God, however, they may worship, believe or understand God.
I work with many members of the LDS faith. As a member myself, I have an “insider’s” understanding of the unique and subtle aspects of doctrine, values, beliefs, and culture that make up our faith, as is true in any particular faith group.
I work with many mainstream Christians as well. In my faith, the Bible is central to our belief system as it is in all Christian faiths. As such the Christians I work with who want God incorporated into our discussions appreciate that I have an intimate understanding of the Word of God and the teachings of Christ. I am well-versed in this wonderful scripture and am happy to use its centering influence in people’s lives.

My being LDS matters to some of my LDS clients and to others it doesn’t.

For example, many Bishops in my area don’t refer to LDS Family Services therapists because too many of them, sadly, just aren’t that good. Just because a therapist is of the same faith as you doesn’t necessarily mean they are a good therapist, even if they are a good person.

Are you going to “preach” to me in session?

No. While I am happy to incorporate your beliefs into our discussions and talk about how you can integrate your beliefs into the strategies we use and even how to leverage your faith to help you better practice the skills you are learning, I am not your spiritual leader. I will always encourage you to work with your ecclesiastical leaders. I respect the line between pastoral counseling and professional counseling. They are two approaches that I have found complement each other well, and I know where my place is and where it isn’t.

Why isn’t it necessary? Any good therapist will respect your beliefs and values and work with you from your value base, not their own.

For example, a dear friend and colleague of mine was raised LDS and later left the church. Yet, I have no problem referring LDS clients to her because a. She’s one of the most skilled and compassionate clinicians I know, and b. Good therapists work from their client’s value system and don’t impose their own–meaning she always respects her LDS clients’ beliefs and helps them live closer to their values. She’s not an angry ex-Mormon with an agenda. She is a good therapist. Period.

The point is there are great therapists in and out of our faith who will respect your beliefs and values. I do just that with my clients who are Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Jewish, and Buddhist. I do that with my clients who are agnostic and atheists. I agree that faith matters in counseling, but only to a point. What matters most is finding a skilled and compassionate person who will work for YOUR goals and agenda and who is healthy enough themselves to not impose their own beliefs and agendas on you.

Are there any good therapists who are also inexpensive?

There is some truth to “you get what you pay for”. Some Bishops and other clergy have told me they have actually paid more in the long run for “less expensive” therapists because:
1. It took longer, and;
2. The results weren’t helpful, which resulted in them ending up paying more in the long run for more counseling and/or a different counselor and/or more ongoing assistance in other ways to the member because of the direct and indirect financial impact of unresolved issues. These are all the hidden costs of “cheaper”;
Sometimes you can find good counselors “on the cheap”: For example, I worked at a community mental health agency for 10 years where our clients paid according to what they could afford: some paid the full fee and some paid only $2 a session. I was paid salary there, of course, and our agency was funded by the county, state, and federal contracts and funding, which offset the fees so all incomes could access quality care. I provided the same high-quality counseling then that I do now. The downside was that I had a large caseload, which can compromise the amount of personal attention I was able to provide to my clients. But, yes, you can find good therapists that are less expensive, too. The main thing is to shop around vs. just “taking what you can get”.

The bottom line is there are many good therapists out there and many sub-par ones, as is true in any profession. It’s a matter of finding who’s available that you can afford (on your own, through your insurance, with church or family help, or agency funding) and then shopping around among them to see who is the best for you. Never settle for just what someone gives you or just what you “can get.” In my field, it’s called self-advocacy and we believe that clients can and should advocate strongly for the best care available.

My clergy member is willing to help support me financially by helping me pay for counseling. However, I can’t find someone in my area who both has the specialty areas I need and as well as someone who will uphold my spiritual values. How do I approach my clergy member about working with you remotely?

You can respectfully address the following with your clergy member:

First, just discuss what you’ve shared with me before about not having access close by to a qualified therapist that meets your needs, and how long it would/could take to travel to another city to meet with a qualified professional;
Inform your clergy member That I work with many clergy locally and remotely for that very reason;
With video and phone technology being so much better and low cost now it is changing how people access healthcare in many ways. For example, in addition to what I provide in this field of counseling, some doctors (both general practitioners and psychiatrists) are now “meeting” with rural patients via video conferencing over the web with people who would otherwise not have access to a doctor. Thus it is becoming more common as technology is allowing people greater choice in selecting providers for their care. Both the Bishops (and other clergy I work with) and my clients appreciate it, in my case, as for the same cost they can get better and more well-suited care.
I one of the few in my field on this cutting-edge who is providing this option. I have clients all over the country and even a few international clients I work with this way (see Client Map).
He or she is more than welcome to call me directly at 801.787.8014 or email me at jonathan@RelateGREAT.net, and I will be happy to answer any of their questions or concerns about working in this manner.

I am a member of the clergy (bishop, pastor, minister, reverend, rabbi, etc). How do you approach matters of faith? I understand you are a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS/Mormon) and that you work with and speak frequently to that membership. Do you work with people of other faiths?

I work with clergy and clients of many faiths because they recognize that I will support their values. They appreciate that I know how to respect the boundary between professional therapy and pastoral counseling. Thus, I frequently work with LDS bishops and stake presidents, Fathers, pastors, reverends, ministers, and rabbis. They know I am well-versed in scripture (Christian, LDS, Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu, and Islamic) and am centered in a strong personal faith.

I have been invited to speak at other churches to do workshops, marriage retreats, work with their members, and so forth, such as the United Methodists, Baptists, and interfaith advocacy groups. I have worked with members of Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu, and Islamic faiths. Whenever I work with someone of a faith different from mine, I make sure that I am well-versed in the core tenants of their faith so that I can respect and support their values. Further, I am always open to being taught and corrected by my clients about the points of their beliefs and practice that are important and relevant to them in our work together.

In short, Mother Teresa said well about her faith and what I feel in my heart, “I love all religions. I’m just in love with mine.”

Dear Brother Sherman, My name is Bishop _________. The topic of helping protect and strengthen marriages weighs heavily on my mind, especially as I provided council with a couple last night who came in and said after X years of a temple marriage and X children later, they are ready to give up, and the only reason they are still married is the kids. It feels like I have had a lot of these cases over the last few weeks. The majority of marital stress is due to poor communication, finances, and pornography. I would love to hear more about the Firesides you provide.

It was good to get your email. As you can imagine, I have the same concerns you have. It grieves me to see so many individuals, couples, children, and families suffer so needlessly when such great solutions are available to them. One of the biggest barriers I have seen that families experience is not the lack of available help but not knowing what’s available to them, how to access that help, or the stigma associated with getting help.

I feel heartily for the couple you described. I specialize in working with such couples in distress and am known as a “turn-around specialist” for troubled marriages. Because of this specialty area, I work with many Bishops, Stake Presidents, and Relief Society Presidents who refer the members of their ward to me to assist them in resolving the difficult communication, financial, parenting, and intimacy conflicts common in marriage, as well as for addiction and mental health recovery needs.

In regards to your question of fireside topics, I speak on a wide range of topics that relate to creating true and lasting GREATness in our relationships, including the above topic areas. While I speak on many topics, some of the most requested presentations are:

Building a Strong Family Team with “ACCCTS”
Parenting Tips from the Trenches
Creating a GREAT Relationship Brand: How Sound Business and Marketing Principles Can Strengthen Your Marriage and Family
Pornography: Problems and Solutions
The “Our Way” Marriage Plan: 10 Steps to Reducing Conflict and Increasing Harmony
Solutions to Depression
Stress-Busting 101: Mastering Anxiety and Stress

Besides the content of the presentation itself, I also offer three uncommon approaches most presenters don’t utilize that leaders have reported to be particularly helpful to them and their members:

Pre-questionnaire: I always customize each presentation to the particular needs and interests of those who will be in attendance by providing a pre-questionnaire to get feedback about what people want to most get out of the fireside or workshop. As opposed to a “canned” presentation, this approach ensures the topic will be especially relevant to those who choose to participate.
Evaluation: An additional benefit of my presentation process is that I also collect an evaluation form at the end of each presentation. I then compile the results (in an anonymous manner, of course) and provide those results back to the organizer and leaders so they can know what was most impactful and relevant to their members. Many have found this feedback to help them get a better “pulse” on the needs of their members.
Handout Packet: Each participant gets a content-rich handout packet that contains the presentation sides, relevant articles, worksheets, and reference material so the learning can continue well after the presentation (Note: Since I give these Church-related presentations for free, the hosting ward customarily makes the copies).

I would be very happy to talk with you more on the phone about how I may be a resource to your ward. You may already know, but all of my speaking services to the Church are provided completely pro-bono as a way for me to pay forward in a small way just some of all the many blessings I receive from the Church and the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Also, my fee for counseling services is significantly reduced from my regular fee of $200/hour to $170/hour for Bishop-supported clients to respect the sacred nature of the funds utilized. This reduced fee allows those funds to go further while still providing the same specialized services marriages in such distress require.

I have attached a list of free articles that will further give you an idea of the topics I am available to speak on. Please feel free to use any of these with your members.

PS: If you think other Bishops and leaders in your Stake may have the same concerns you have, please feel free to forward this email to them as well.

What topics do you speak on that may benefit the members of our congregation?

There are many fun, informative, upbeat and/or more serious topics that I am able to present to your members (see full Seminar list here). Most of them center around the themes of self-mastery, marriage mastery, and parenting finesse. All workshops are based in, and true to, Gospel principles and are supported by the most rigorous research and evidence-based practices. Of course, my speaking services are done pro-bono for my Church. I only ask that each ward/stake be responsible for making copies of the handout materials I use for the requested workshop. My fees for other faiths are based at a discounted rate, and I am willing to discuss honorariums when the discounted rate is not doable.

Please feel free to contact me directly either via jonathan@RelateGREAT.net or phone at 801.787.8014 if there are any further questions you have or if I can be of service in any way to you or the members of your congregation.

Do you mind if we do a background check and speak to your ecclesiastical leader in regard to your personal background and character?

I speak to many churches, wards, stakes, and faith groups. I certainly understand the necessity of doing background checks (professionally and in regard to standing in my church) on anyone who might present to your members.

Professionally, you may view my vita as well as peruse this website.

In regards to my Church standing, I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, American Fork 9th Ward, American Fork Utah East Stake. Message me you would like to speak to my Bishop and/or Stake President for character references, and I will get you their contact information.

Personally, I am married to a lovely and skilled husband-trainer ;-). We live in eternal bliss (okay, fairly peaceably) with our four children and dog in the beautiful Rocky Mountains of Utah.

More About Jonathan

Jonathan’s Professional Vita

You may view my full vita delineating my background, education, and experience.

From an Interview: What are your greatest assets and liabilities?

ADHD: I both have it and have treated it in youth and adults for years. While ADHD is very real, I’ve come to reject its official name of Attention Deficit Disorder because I don’t believe it’s a deficit (something lacking), and I don’t believe it’s a disorder (something wrong). It is a dynamic way of thinking and paying attention that is diverse and different. This difference has been my greatest source of inspiration as I miss nothing and notice everything. Everything fascinates me, and I’m never bored. Everything gives me ideas. I would HATE not to have my ADHD. I would not trade this type of brain for any other. And yes, it also leads to distraction and can make it, at times, a real chore to stay focused on some key tasks. But that’s manageable with skills, training, and practice. So, yes, I’m ADD: Attention Different and Dynamic. ADHD is probably both my greatest asset and liability. Fortunately, most of the liability side of it has been managed, and most of the asset side has been leveraged.
I am a stutterer, though few would ever know it unless I told them, as I am fluent, speak confidently and easily, and rarely stutter noticeably. In fact, I almost became a speech therapist instead of a family therapist, as it helped me so much. Instead of being crippled by stuttering, I’ve gratefully made a career as a professional communicator and speaker.
A compassionate heart. That’s all good, right? Yes, mostly. However, I am a people-pleaser/peace-maker by nature, and as such, I have had to learn to become comfortable and adept at healthy conflict and become very proficient with my own boundaries and self-care lest that compassionate nature be taken advantage of. Fortunately, those skills are strong and allow me to leverage the strength of that compassionate nature.
A quick, curious, and inquisitive mind.
A great respect for people’s unique differences. I trust my clients will teach me the best way to help them. I have learned to trust that my client’s pace of change is always the correct one.
A love of well-researched knowledge, evidence-based practices, and timeless wisdom.
My approaches are practical and hands-on. I like the doable that produces tangible results.
A fun and slightly irreverent sense of humor. My sister calls me a cartoon. Turns out the class clowning that got me in trouble as a kid has been an asset as an adult.
Integrity to practice the bulk of what I preach. I claim no perfection and expect perfection from no one. Some skills and mindsets I nail 100%—master-level stuff. Other things, I get A’s and B’s most of the time. Some things I just do the best I can. I expect greatness, not perfection, of myself and of my clients. Part of greatness is stretching well beyond our comfort zone while balancing a healthy acceptance of ourselves where we are and for who we are.

From an Interview: Why are you an entrepreneur?

I was clear from the beginning that I wanted to create and run my own business and that I didn’t want to have “just” a private practice. I didn’t know how to run a business nor how to do it on my own. So I studied successful entrepreneurs in every field, not just successful therapists in my field.

Why on my own, though? Why not with a partner or a group? I never fully fit into other’s systems of school or bureaucratic organizations. I feel constrained by others’ methods, even when they are good methods. While I love being a part of a creative and cohesive team, I value the freedom to do things fully the way I would like them done. This isn’t controlling. It’s being in control (of self/destiny). There is a difference. Being an entrepreneur allows most of the best parts of myself to be fully explored and fulfilled.

For example,

I love creating, crafting, and building things: As a child, it was Lego and Lincoln Logs. As an adult, it’s graphics, woodworking, helping people develop into their most authentic true selves (individuals, couples, families, organizations), developing products, presentations, and my own company;
I love/hate the risk/reward quotient of being an entrepreneur. But I love it more than not because I love the ability to make my own path with the help of many others’ brilliant and generous support, faith, guidance, and encouragement;
I dreamed and ached to have an abundance of both time and money to squander on my family. I didn’t know how to do it, but I wanted it SO bad I just never stopped trying;
My parents believed in me. My wife believes in me. Their constant and abiding faith gave me the confidence that I really did have something valuable to offer to people, and the most effective way to do so was on my own as an entrepreneur.
I wanted to have a broader ability to help as many people as possible in my limited time on this planet. Working on my own has allowed me to pursue my speaking and writing career more fully to reach as many as possible.